Sticking to Success: How 3M Engineers Solutions for Tomorrow

Reese Weber, Application Engineering Manager at 3M, shares how a near-disaster sparked 120 years of groundbreaking innovation—from sandpaper to Scotch tape. 💡

Transcript

(0:00) Welcome to the Tomorrow's World Today podcast. (0:04) We sit down with experts, world-changing innovators, (0:07) creators, and makers to explore how they're taking action (0:10) to make tomorrow's world a better place for technology, (0:14) science, innovation, sustainability, the arts, and more. (0:18) On this episode, host George Davison, (0:21) who is also the host of Tomorrow's World Today on the Science Channel, (0:24) sits down with Reece Weber, application engineering manager at 3M.
(0:28) Reece reflects on his journey from middle school to his career at 3M. (0:32) He also discusses developing products that align with customer demands (0:36) for sustainability and the importance of refining innovations over time, (0:41) even if the process is initially messy and resource-heavy. (0:45) Welcome.
(0:46) Thank you for having me. (0:47) You bet. (0:48) Well, I think we probably should start a conversation with that big title of yours.
(0:53) What does that mean? (0:54) Yeah, so essentially we have an entire team of application engineers at 3M globally, (1:01) and really it's just a fancy name for all of us have an engineering background, (1:05) and we focus specifically on helping customers with their applications. (1:10) So me specifically, I work only on 3M VHB tapes, (1:15) so I've got a lot of background in the 3M technology, (1:18) but I know that there's a lot of customers that, you know, (1:21) maybe have zero background and even adhesives in general, (1:24) but, you know, they might be thinking about using a tape in their design. (1:28) So I'm there specifically to help them in their design, (1:32) making sure they use the right tape, the right, you know, design geometries even, (1:38) and as we go through that design process, (1:41) helping them even apply the tape and even training their team sometimes.
(1:45) Wow, that's interesting. (1:46) So you get to talk to customers, ask lots of questions, (1:50) use your observational skills, right, (1:53) and then try to come up with ideas on how to best help them apply your materials (1:59) to have a great outcome of their product in the end, right? (2:02) Yeah, you've got it. (2:03) And honestly, like the best advice ever given to me was (2:06) you have two ears and one mouth for a reason, right? (2:09) It's listening to those people and trying to learn more about them (2:12) through your observational skills.
(2:13) Nice. What's a great way to say it? (2:15) One of my mentors used to tell me that when I was a youngster too. (2:18) Yeah.
(2:19) Yeah, listen twice as much as you talk. (2:22) You've got it. (2:23) A good way to live life, right? (2:24) Right, right.
(2:25) All right, so let's take the audience back if we could. (2:28) Like before we were probably born, or at least me, no, not you at least, (2:34) tell us about these founders at 3M. (2:36) Who were these people? (2:37) How did this company get started? (2:39) Yeah, definitely before all of us were born.
(2:41) I can confidently say that. (2:42) So the 3M company itself was actually formed, (2:47) the 3Ms were Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing. (2:50) Essentially they wanted to start to mine this mineral called corundum, (2:55) essentially meant for abrasives and sandpapers.
(2:58) Okay. (2:58) But it was almost what I would call a complete disaster (3:02) and failure from the start. (3:04) The mineral reserves that they were trying to go for were not corundum.
(3:08) It was actually a completely different mineral (3:10) that's horrible for abrasives. (3:13) So somehow they continued to go. (3:17) And over the next 20 years or so, (3:19) really some core tenets of what the company is about, (3:23) talking to the customer and just really hiring good people and letting them go, (3:28) really were developed.
(3:29) So we started working in abrasives, (3:33) developed the first wet abrasive called wet or dry sandpaper, (3:37) which was revolutionary at the time. (3:40) And then gradually even used that to develop Scotch tape (3:44) when one of our product developers was just observing (3:47) these automobile manufacturers having difficulties creating two-tone paint vehicles. (3:53) So you have abrasion, right? (3:56) So you can have sandpaper that is dry to dry.
(4:00) And then you have sandpaper that goes underwater (4:03) that you can smooth things off. (4:06) And also adhesive. (4:08) So you're removing material and you're sticking material to each other.
(4:13) Yes. (4:13) And there's a little bit more nuance to this in general, (4:17) but if you think about what's the difference between a sandpaper and a tape, (4:21) a tape is sandpaper without the mineral. (4:24) Oh, that's a great way to look at it.
(4:26) It's paper and adhesive. (4:27) Okay. (4:28) Nice.
(4:28) So that's the beginning of the 3M Corporation. (4:32) Yes. (4:32) And that was still in the 1920s.
(4:34) So 100 years of innovation since we've created quite a bit more. (4:38) But, yeah, from humble beginnings, almost disastrous beginnings to what we are today. (4:43) All right.
(4:43) Well, that's great stuff. (4:44) So we've learned a little bit about the background of the company, (4:48) a little bit about what it means to be an engineer like yourself at the 3M Company. (4:53) I'm curious, is 3M involved in helping, you know, (4:58) schools like in any way to help them understand 3M (5:01) or maybe an innovation mindset in any way? (5:05) Definitely.
(5:06) And we realize that this is incredibly important, too, (5:09) because as a company that some of our bread and butter, if you will, is adhesives. (5:14) These are not materials that are talked about or that, you know, (5:18) anyone even going up through basic chemistry courses to university learn about in the first place. (5:24) So we realize that it's very important to talk to people early, (5:28) get them interested in the STEM education field, science and engineering, (5:33) and just understand how fulfilling that can be.
(5:37) And then, of course, bring in our products later on. (5:40) Right. (5:40) So learning about how to use your mind and your hands to create things is an important part of a career (5:50) if you were to select a 3M type of company.
(5:52) Yeah. (5:53) Incredibly important. (5:54) And honestly, not even just in scientific fields, if you will.
(5:59) You know, that scientific mindset of almost trial and error, right? (6:03) Like trying a bunch of different variables is just helpful for life in general, if you will, right? (6:09) You need to try things out, experiment on yourself to learn what you like. (6:13) Yeah. (6:13) I mean, eventually we kind of gravitate to the things we feel more drawn to.
(6:18) From my perspective, it's how many things can I get to see and learn about? (6:24) Because maybe I'll find something that would interest me, you know? (6:27) But around here, you know, we fail a lot. (6:31) And people think, oh, you know, everybody's so successful. (6:35) Well, we are, but only because we're willing to try again.
(6:39) Exactly. (6:40) And it does take effort to get back up and try again. (6:43) And I imagine, just based on how your story started this morning, that, you know, (6:49) having an abrasive product that didn't work all that great, (6:52) and somehow today, you're what? (6:54) How many billion dollars a year is 3M Corporation? (6:57) Thirty-some billion, last time I checked.
(7:00) You know, 90,000-ish employees across the world. (7:04) It's crazy, honestly. (7:06) Isn't that amazing? (7:08) And it's in, what, about 100 and how many years, would you say? (7:12) Since we were created? (7:13) Yes.
(7:14) I mean, about 120, almost exactly to the year, if my 1902 is correct. (7:18) So we're looking at about 120 years. (7:21) We went from zero sales to billions with thousands and thousands of employees.
(7:29) And that's just a beautiful thing. (7:30) It really, it lets people, you know, build a wonderful life for them and their families. (7:37) My hat's off to you, everybody, you and everybody else at 3M.
(7:42) Great work. (7:43) Thank you. (7:43) I can't take too much credit for that, but I'll take what I can.
(7:46) Well, hey, you're a part of their story now. (7:50) So it's nice to see the next generation coming along. (7:54) So let's see here.
(7:54) I have a couple more questions for you. (7:56) Sure. (7:57) See if I can stump you today.
(7:59) But did you have any mentors when you were younger that helped to shape your future? (8:05) Yeah, and it's, I don't know if it's like the most unique stories, if you will, (8:09) but I think it's really, you know, me growing up, you know, like you mentioned, (8:14) I always gravitated towards math and science. (8:17) That's what came easy to me, if you will. (8:20) And I think growing up, I don't know if I want to say my mindset was like, was lazy or something, (8:25) but it was like, you know, I'm doing all this schoolwork.
(8:29) I get it done in a couple of minutes and then I want to relax, go play sports, hang out with friends, things like that. (8:35) And the people that I really, you know, attribute to helping me with having maybe a more driven mindset, if you will, (8:41) are really a couple of specific teachers, you know, at pivotal moments, you know, fourth grade, eighth grade, (8:48) that really just pushed me to broaden my mind, if you will, continue working instead of taking the easy route out, you know, (8:57) continue exploring different options and learning more about myself as I grew up. (9:02) And I would say even once I got into university, I actually started working at 3M while I was in my sophomore year of college.
(9:10) And my very first job, I had a cubicle right outside the office of one of the guys who worked on the product development teams (9:19) of both Command Strips and Scotch Magic Tape. (9:22) So like, look for your tape. (9:24) So this person was on the team that developed sales in, you know, the billions of dollars.
(9:30) And I'm sitting right next to him as a 19-year-old at the time. (9:33) Wow. (9:34) And it's just cool how the entire company kind of has this mindset of it doesn't matter what level you are, (9:41) I will have time on the calendar for you if you want to ask questions, whether it's personal, professional, technical, (9:49) people are there to help you.
(9:50) And it's a really cool community that way. (9:52) That's wonderful. (9:54) Yeah, that's a different form of mentorship.
(9:56) It's wonderful to hear that they're thinking that way and that they apply time in the office for that kind of knowledge transfer, (10:05) that way we would call that around here. (10:07) How about the, let's go back if we could to that math teacher and a couple of these teachers that made these impacts. (10:14) What did they do? (10:16) I mean, did they suggest to you, hey, you're good at this.
(10:20) Can we stretch you a little more and keep your interest going? (10:23) I mean, what did they do exactly? (10:25) Yeah, so I had one specific math teacher, I think I was maybe in seventh or eighth grade, (10:32) and just realized that I was maybe ahead of the curve of the rest of the class. (10:40) So she, Mrs. Hartman, at the time she actually took me out of class, (10:46) spoke to my parents and said, hey, Reese is ahead of this. (10:50) I think that what we can do is actually, in this time, have an independent study, if you will, (10:57) and actually start teaching the concepts of algebra one and two, (11:01) which at that time, if I'm a seventh or eighth grader, those were ninth and tenth grade classes.
(11:05) She helped me get ahead in these classes, pass all the tests to be able to skip some of these courses in high school, (11:12) just to maybe give me extra time to advance myself further in high school. (11:17) And it was something that's maybe small, but when you see someone that you look up to investing that time into you, (11:26) it's really inspiring, and it makes you not want to let that person down. (11:31) I want to crush learning this.
I'm going to pass it because she saw that potential in me. (11:37) Isn't that wonderful? (11:38) Yeah. (11:38) I have a few teachers like that too that I think got me where I am today (11:44) because of that mindset and stretching me all the time.
(11:47) Well, thank you for that. Thanks for sharing some of that history. (11:51) Could you touch a little bit on, let's say, some things in middle school that happened to you or high school that happened to you? (12:00) Yep.
(12:00) What are some of the things that you really struggle with or didn't do so well with, but, hey, you still got to where you are. (12:08) So you didn't dwell on the negative, did you? You figured out a way to get here. (12:12) Yes, yeah.
That's a good question, and there's a reason I focused on math and science so far, (12:17) which is really just half of the curriculum, if even. (12:21) All of those classes around language arts, grammar, reading, etc., I hated growing up. (12:31) Everyone's wired differently because someone loves those classes, but as you said, (12:36) these are still things that you need, and you maybe don't realize at the time how important communication skills are.
(12:45) I really wish maybe it was phrased up to me at that moment of, (12:49) we're not going through different gerunds, different parts of the language just to bore you. (12:58) It's to make you be able to communicate later in life (13:01) because it doesn't really matter how smart you are in math or science or whatever it may be to this person. (13:06) It's really about if you can't communicate yourself, that part almost doesn't matter.
(13:12) At 3 a.m., jobs in communication. (13:14) What kind of jobs are in the field of communication at a place like 3 a.m.? (13:18) Yeah. I mean, first off, I'm willing to say that every job in communication is probably the most important skill you have, (13:24) but to your question, I think any job, whether it's in, we've got corporate communications people that are working.
(13:32) If you see 3M in the news, these people have likely worked on, whether it's a PowerPoint deck or a specific press release (13:41) and focused on writing those properly, or it's even everyone in the field of sales, if you will. (13:49) I think communication is what they have to do best. (13:54) Of working to, whether it's through a distributor, an end user, understanding what those people want, (14:02) making sure that it's something simple as getting back to this person through email or through voicemail.
(14:08) Without that communication piece, people don't really want to associate with you. (14:12) Right. So that's interesting.
(14:15) You know, Reese, eventually you found yourself educated with a certain amount of knowledge, (14:22) and you decided, hey, I want to go work at this 3M company. How did that come to be? (14:27) Yeah. Not a snap of the fingers, if you will.
(14:30) Okay. (14:31) It's something that took a little while, and I'm honestly very happy that it did. (14:37) I think probably a lot of younger people can associate becoming an adult, you don't all of a sudden know what you want to do.
(14:47) And I think, honestly, the entire journey, even where I'm at now, is figuring out what you like (14:53) and maybe narrowing down and whittling down what you don't. (14:57) I still don't have a great idea of what I want to do, but it's about finding fulfillment. (15:01) So to get back to at least my specific journey, I mentioned that I was good at math and science, (15:08) so I figured going into college, I still didn't really have an idea of what I wanted to do.
(15:14) I just knew I wanted to focus in there. (15:15) So I looked at the field of engineering in general, just thinking of, I don't know exactly what, (15:22) but I know engineering can be so broadly used. (15:25) There are engineers at all of these different companies, (15:27) and at least if you get to learn that background, that can be very helpful, (15:34) and then you can switch between these engineering companies.
(15:37) So anyway, I went into school as a chemical engineering undergrad. (15:41) In chemical engineering at the University of Minnesota, where I went, (15:44) at least it was very highly regarded to go into research, (15:48) which essentially puts you down the path of getting a PhD, doctorate, going into leading R&D. (15:53) So my freshman year, I emailed a bunch of professors, asked, like, (15:59) hey, do you have spots on your research team? (16:01) I think I emailed about 20 different professors and got declined one by one.
(16:07) Hey, the team's full, the team's full, the team's full. (16:10) And it wasn't because they didn't want me. (16:12) There's only so many people.
(16:14) Eventually, I finally did find a research job, thankfully. (16:18) I get into this. (16:19) I'm working on essentially adding what's called nanocomposites into polymer blends, (16:25) so essentially putting small particles into something that already exists (16:29) and seeing if it changes the properties.
(16:32) We didn't exactly know what it would be used for, but this is research, right? (16:36) You're trying to do something that's new and see how it applies later. (16:39) I get into this after working very hard to get this research position, (16:43) and I think maybe two or three weeks into the job, (16:46) I realize I hate it. (16:50) It's just not for me, and there's people that are amazing at it, (16:54) but every single time for this research and development, (16:56) it takes an incredible amount of time, (16:59) and sometimes you're doing the exact same thing hundreds of times without success (17:03) or without the change in properties.
(17:06) And I think you mentioned that you get bored easily. (17:09) I also got bored quickly in this role for research and development, (17:15) and I'm thinking that this is the pinnacle of chemical engineering, (17:18) and I'm wondering, have I gone horribly wrong? (17:21) Am I going down the wrong path? (17:23) Things like that. (17:24) Luckily, you know, I think I already mentioned that I did start at 3M my sophomore year.
(17:29) I noticed that, hey, if I don't like research, let's pick out the things that I might like. (17:34) I like working on stuff that's cutting edge. (17:36) I maybe don't like the repetition quite as much.
(17:39) So I know that in industry, like 3M's a company in there, (17:42) let's see what sort of jobs that they have for someone that might be working in college, (17:49) and luckily they have this position called a technical aid where it's, you know, (17:53) they pay college students to work. (17:55) They're part-time, extremely flexible, (17:57) and you can come in and actually work with these product developers (17:59) and help them test their new products. (18:01) So I'm working on something that's far more tangible now.
(18:05) At this time, I was working on different masking tape adhesives, masking tape backing, (18:10) so I can actually start to understand where this is applied in the end, (18:15) and just having that knowledge and actually doing some of these testing, (18:19) whether it's peel adhesion, tensile and elongation, you know, (18:23) having that tangible effect and working with these developers who have been there for 10, 20, 30 years (18:29) was just far more stimulating to me. (18:31) That's really a good way to say it. (18:33) You know, the things that stimulate us, it's easier to work in those environments, isn't it? (18:41) Exactly, and really you may not have any clue without trying.
(18:45) So I'm so happy I tried something and learned that I hated it first (18:49) because that rules out that whole portion instead of getting to it later. (18:53) Yeah, I think that the idea of what you mentioned earlier too is that, you know, (18:58) exploring around in these different fields, trying to find out what does stimulate you. (19:04) I'm not surprised you used that word because as a chemical engineer, stimulus is a common word.
(19:10) Absolutely. (19:11) So good stuff there. (19:13) All right, so, Rhys, if there was one thing that you could redo in high school, what would it be? (19:20) I wish that I just had all of this understanding of the trilinear earlier.
(19:26) You know, I think throughout school, I kind of did what was maybe expected of me, right? (19:35) Of like, hey, this is, you take AP World Geography, you take AP Calculus, this is what's expected of you. (19:42) And I just kind of did it blindly without, you know, taking a step back (19:47) and maybe evaluating what I thought was most important. (19:50) I think I wish I would have focused on things a little bit earlier to maybe have more of an idea, (19:57) more of a defined path to take earlier in life, instead of maybe having to learn some of these lessons later.
(20:04) I see. (20:05) So, if you did go back in time and you talked to yourself back then, would you have said something like, (20:10) hey, take a moment and, you know, think about how this might affect you in a going forward kind of way (20:20) so that you can get more serious about a subject? (20:24) Is that what I kind of heard you say? (20:26) Yeah, I think take time to actually be introspective for a moment. (20:33) It's very worthwhile to take the time, you know, maybe step away.
(20:37) Right. (20:38) Really take time to think about what you want to do yourself. (20:40) So true.
(20:41) Good advice. (20:43) All right. (20:44) So, what type of opportunities exist for innovators if they were to go to the 3M company? (20:52) Yes.
(20:53) So, 3M, you know, specifically actually works with young scientists. (20:59) And there's actually like different mentorships where young scientists can be paired with a 3M product developer (21:06) or maybe someone that just works in the lab and actually go through these different science competitions. (21:13) Right.
(21:13) So, almost like a science fair, but with a grown up helper, if you will. (21:17) Nice. (21:18) So, you have somebody helping you along.
(21:20) It's like a science like mentor. (21:24) Exactly. (21:24) Right.
(21:25) And maybe and while it may seem like it's just focused on, you know, the specific project you might be working on. (21:32) Right. (21:32) This person's also there to be a mentor for any other questions you might have.
(21:37) That's great. (21:37) And whether it's with 3M or any company that does this outreach, you know, I think speaking to different people who are in different areas. (21:46) You know, even if it's outside of STEM, if that's what someone may be, you know, more stimulated by.
(21:52) You know, getting these different perspectives from people who work in these different lives can help influence your decisions. (21:59) That's wonderful. (21:59) I didn't know that you had that initiative at 3M.
(22:04) Somebody's really leading the dialogue on that one. (22:07) Absolutely. (22:08) I love hearing stuff like that.
(22:10) Corporate responsibility and helping to bring up our youth. (22:14) It's a big, big thing that needs to be done. (22:18) Yeah.
(22:18) I couldn't agree more. (22:19) And I wish I knew about it when I was, you know, a young scientist level age. (22:24) Right.
(22:24) I do too. (22:26) All right. (22:27) So, let's see here.
(22:28) Do you believe that anybody could be successful? (22:32) Do you think that's inside everybody on the planet? (22:35) Absolutely. (22:36) And the fact that success is such a large word, you know, I think it's up to you to define that yourself. (22:43) Success isn't what necessarily what everyone else thinks about you.
(22:47) Success isn't always money. (22:50) Success is finding out what drives you, what makes you want to wake up the next day, and working towards doing more of that. (22:57) Right.
(22:58) Well said. (23:00) Thank you for that. (23:02) Let's see here.
(23:04) What is one project that you think 3M or the industry that you're in, adhesives and abrasives amongst others with 3M, (23:14) that has struggled with but you think is going to elevate humankind one day? (23:19) Sure. (23:20) I think this whole concept of like green sustainability is just a challenging one in general, (23:28) but one that I think is so incredibly important for society, if you will. (23:34) You know, I think a lot of these companies, you know, unfortunately always are thinking about profits.
(23:39) You know, what is the stock price, things like this. (23:42) And, you know, I wish there would just always be more focus on the greater good (23:47) and making sure that we're not using up all of these valuable resources, (23:52) making sure that what we do is sustainable for the future and to make life sustainable in general, right? (24:00) Sure. (24:00) Yeah.
(24:01) I mean, at the battle of sustainability, it's interesting to me, the evolution of innovation. (24:07) It's like as human beings, we create things and it's such a messy process to create new things. (24:15) And then over time we refine and we refine and eventually we get it right.
(24:22) I don't know. (24:22) You could think back to the days of like when IBM created that first big computer (24:27) and now it's like, you know, it's like in this little tiny… (24:31) It's in your pocket. (24:31) But my goodness, that thing in the early days must have been just a major debacle on raw materials.
(24:40) But it's hard for us, I think, as human beings to like see the end outcome that we need to get to early on. (24:50) It's like this painful process. (24:52) It's big, it's clunky, it's not really great.
(24:56) But we just keep trying and trying and that takes time and money. (25:01) To push forward through that. (25:04) But I think you're right.
(25:05) I mean, sustainability, using our environment the right way, how do we get there? (25:12) It's funny because I think adhesion or adhesive type products, and I'm just scratching away in my mind right now. (25:21) Looking at probably going back to trees and some of the sap, some of the liquid that exists inside a tree to create bonds. (25:34) And then look at that.
(25:36) Well, if you cut down all those trees, how do we go beyond that? (25:41) Yeah, and I think a lot of the raw materials for adhesives actually come from fossil fuels right now. (25:46) So it's like, how can we get raw materials that come from these renewable resources? (25:53) And yeah, maybe using some of those, there's always going to be trade-offs. (25:55) There's trade-offs if you change in any raw material, right? (25:59) So some things will be worse, but maybe focus on what's better.
(26:02) Where can we use that, right? (26:03) And build from there. (26:05) Right. (26:05) Yeah, I like the idea.
(26:07) I assume 3M is working on a more sustainable outcome to their tapes and whatnot. (26:12) Yes, and it's a huge goal for us, and I think we owe it to the world. (26:16) I think all large companies owe it to everybody to have these sustainability goals and really focus on leaning into them and continuing that.
(26:23) I think it's great, too, because it also drives innovation. (26:27) I mean, it's like, why keep it this old way we used to do it? (26:31) We can do better, right? (26:33) Yeah. (26:33) And that's going to require what? (26:35) A lot of innovator, young people coming up and going, I think I can do better than that.
(26:39) And they draw on the old knowledge with their rebellious, younger, I'm going to figure it out. (26:48) They couldn't. (26:49) I'm going to do it better than my parents, better than the other people.
(26:53) Right, right. (26:53) I mean, I didn't want to do what my parents did. (26:56) I'm a rebel that way.
(26:58) I'm an innovator. (26:59) I want to make it better. (27:00) So I think it's just part of the process.
(27:02) Agreed. (27:04) Let's see here. (27:05) So I think I may have asked you this question.
(27:10) You probably answered it already in another way. (27:14) But what is the next big innovation coming into your industry? (27:19) And I think you're going to say it's creating a more sustainable product line. (27:25) Yes, definitely.
(27:26) And part of what we're working on for the future is always like having that ideal in mind, right? (27:34) Is we can't create a new product that's not sustainable. (27:38) Right now, really what we're working for, especially in my 3M VHB world, is we want to move along with the customers. (27:46) So their designs are changing.
(27:48) Their materials are changing, hopefully to more sustainable materials. (27:52) And they want to use more automation robotics. (27:55) So we need to make materials that keep up with that.
(27:57) Interesting. (27:58) So even in this upcoming episode, we're showing this 3M VHB extrutable tape, where instead of just like a tape format, now this can be extruded from robotics. (28:09) So it can almost be flexible to exactly what that end user needs for their design.
(28:16) It can be stretch released. (28:18) So instead of scrapping materials, we can rework them. (28:21) Even things along those lines add to the sustainability feature.
(28:25) Well, that's great. (28:27) Rhys, I can't thank you enough for coming in here today. (28:29) I really appreciate it.
(28:30) This is such a fun thing to do. (28:32) Well, everybody, that's another edition. (28:36) Bye, everybody.
(28:37) Bye, everyone. (28:38) Thank you for listening to this episode of Tomorrow's World Today podcast. (28:42) Join us next time as we continue to explore the worlds of inspiration, creation, innovation, and production.
(28:49) Discover more at tomorrowsworldtoday.com. (28:51) Connect with us on social media at TWTExplore and find us wherever podcasts are available.